Boston Marathon Explosion(s)

Rick wrote:

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote:

Science Chic wrote:
But why? Why is war "a horrible necessity?" Why do you think they "will always happen?"

As I look at the picture of Martin Richard, the 8 year old who senselessly died, whose family now mourns his loss, I cannot and will not believe that they are a necessity; I reject that assumption forcefully. Nor do I believe that they will always happen, else we are doomed. It's a cycle that needs to be broken, not assumed that it will never end and it's just a part of life. Owning slaves used to be a "part of life", it is no longer. Dying of smallpox used to be just a "part of life", it is no longer. Why accept the way things are if they are so abhorrent and painful? Why not refuse the status quo and aim for higher/better/more evolved? Wouldn't a world in which there were no more retaliation for the loss of loved ones be preferred?

First... you conflate Martin Richard with war. Not the issue (but a clever tug at the heartstrings).

Now on to the issue. We've been evolving for a hundred thousand years, and whacking each other on the head since the first person realized they could pick up a rock and throw it. And all that "whacking" has not stopped advances in education, science, political systems, innovation, medicine, philosophy or spiritual advancement. All of those have accelerated at exponential rates. You even admit the world is "better" in your slave and smallpox analogy above. War and violence has not stopped any of those things from advancing or being achieved.

But war has stopped crazy, blood thirsty men from becoming any more blood thirsty. War has prevented the destruction of the rest of the Jewish population on this planet by a megalomaniac named Hitler. War has stopped the elimination of whole populations of people in many times and places. There will be mentally unstable and politically over ambitious people in all eras, in all decades and no advancements in evolution will erase that. The science of evolution itself, and it's counterpart, Social Darwinism has already proven that.

Having a Captain Kathryn Janeway mentality is what kept the Voyager in the Delta Quadrant for seven years. If Seven of Nine was at the helm, they would have been home in 3 hours, and there would have been hundreds of less deaths in that Quadrant. That's the nature of humans. Unless you want a drug addled, politically and socially suppressed world population, you are never going to change human nature to the point of achieving your blessed utopia. Science is against you on this... Science Chic.

:thumbsup: Agree with everything you said except I don't believe it's "the nature of humans". I believe it's the nature of some humans. Most of us can't imagine using violence to settle our disputes in real life unless our security or someone we care about is threatened. But there are those people from the lowest to the highest levels of power who have no issue with using terror and violence to achieve their goals. Unless those people can somehow be eliminated, there will always be a need for war, for cops, and for personal protection.

I will defer to your amendment to my statements. Your fine tuning is spot on. I submit my original post and Rick's amendment to Science Chic for debate.

I don't believe war or violence is a necessity at all. It is an artifact of our past that we are well able to release when we are ready. We are not slaves to our baser selves. We can choose.

chickaree wrote: I don't believe war or violence is a necessity at all. It is an artifact of our past that we are well able to release when we are ready. We are not slaves to our baser selves. We can choose.

And what do you do with, and to, those people that choose to be violent?

Owning slaves used to be a "part of life", it is no longer. - Science Chic

I would have thought you would be more informed. Just do a quick Google on slavery today. This is from the first entry:

Slavery in the 21st Century

Slavery still exists today. Whether it is called human trafficking, bonded labor, forced labor, or sex trafficking, it is present worldwide, including within the United States and, increasingly, in your local community.

An estimated 12 - 27 million people are caught in one or another form of slavery. Between 600,000 and 800,000 are trafficked internationally, with as many as 17,500 people trafficked into the United States. Nearly three out of every four victims are women. Half of modern-day slaves are children.

http://freedomcenter.org/slavery-today

This from the second:

Through Free the Slaves’ research, first published in Kevin Bales’ Disposable People, our conservative estimate is that there are 27 million people in slavery today. This means that there are more people in slavery today than at any other time in human history.

https://www.freetheslaves.net/SSLPage.aspx?pid=301

One of the presure cooker lids was found on the roof of a building. Wow! I wonder what they were loaded with explosive wise. That might also help determine who were the bombers.

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote:

chickaree wrote: I don't believe war or violence is a necessity at all. It is an artifact of our past that we are well able to release when we are ready. We are not slaves to our baser selves. We can choose.

And what do you do with, and to, those people that choose to be violent?

That is the ultimate question that people who believe in the notion of world peace can not answer.

Rick wrote:

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote:

chickaree wrote: I don't believe war or violence is a necessity at all. It is an artifact of our past that we are well able to release when we are ready. We are not slaves to our baser selves. We can choose.

And what do you do with, and to, those people that choose to be violent?

That is the ultimate question that people who believe in the notion of world peace can not answer.

Taking a lead from the future.......suspended animation.

1982 StarTrek....Wrath of Kahn........Khan Noonien Singh ("Kahn") was suspended in animation and sent into space for promoting/advancing a "super race" of humans....the long deep sleep COULD be an answer....let's get SC enlisted on that project

Rick wrote: [I don't believe it's "the nature of humans". I believe it's the nature of some humans. Most of us can't imagine using violence to settle our disputes in real life unless our security or someone we care about is threatened. But there are those people from the lowest to the highest levels of power who have no issue with using terror and violence to achieve their goals. Unless those people can somehow be eliminated, there will aways be a need for war, for cops, and for personal protection.

I believe you are wrong. It is only the affluence of our society that breeds and nurtures such pollyannish thoughts.

You and I might be the only truly civilized men in Colorado and I am not too sure about you.

This is not an expression of my cynicism or caveman background. It is or used to be an acknowledgment of human nature.

I would refer you to "Lord of the Flies" by William Golding except the first page of a google search indicates there is more interest in cliff notes and cheating the professor that actually reading and contemplating the meaning of the book.

Anyone that believes we only choose to be violent needs to watch "9 meals away from anarchy" parts one and two on Youtube.

Anyone can be violent if their basic needs for food, shelter, and overall safety is threatened... I'm not disputing that. But when those needs are satisfied, a much smaller percentage of the population will resort to violence in order to get MORE. I reject the notion that all people are violent even if those needs are met.