Vote no on 4A

07 Oct 2013 22:42 #181 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Vote no on 4A
I asked about this issue. This was the answer I received: the district did not exceed appropriations, it was an error on the auditors part that has since been corrected and is being sent to the state and prepared for publication on the website. In addition to that, the claim that not filing an amended audit is against state law is incorrect as well, which the Chief spoke about during the Community Meeting last week.
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Another place to check to which district you pay is to look at your county property tax statement - all taxes should be broken down on there.

I'll try to answer your other questions frogger.

Financial documents are already available on the website, the links to which have been posted in this thread and are on http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Welcome.html . If there are any additional ones that you wish (such as previous years audited budgets), you just have to call the station and request them to be emailed to you.

No one will be campaigning for the mill levy during the Open House. However, questions about the mill levy, the budgets, the facilities, the training, the equipment, etc are more than welcome. I'd guess that most of the firefighters won't be able to answer specific questions about the budgets/mill levy so it would probably be most efficient if you emailed those directly to Chief McLaughlin or called him. There's also an ECFPD Board of Directors meeting this coming Thursday at Fire Station 1 at 6pm during which you can ask.

It has not been our goal, the Friends of Elk Creek Fire group, nor intention, to pull on any "heart-strings" - we've just presented the facts and consequences of what is likely happen should the measure not be passed.

The Chief himself has been very upfront about the fact that he cannot, and would not, campaign for or against this issue - his job is to tell the facts which is what he has done at all of his presentations. The FOECF are under no such restrictions, but we believe that the facts should support themselves and this community's decision to support the fire department. It's the residents' choice as to what level of service they wish to maintain, it's just our job to inform everyone as to what levels they will have if the mill is passed vs. if it isn't.

KincaidSprings, that Donate button is part of the nic's standard sig line, not something that was thrown in your face. It's been there ever since they setup the PayPal donation option. If everyone's willing to donate the $1M they need for the 3 trucks alone, they sure wouldn't need a mill levy! :)

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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07 Oct 2013 23:22 #182 by GO UNION
Replied by GO UNION on topic Vote no on 4A
SC, Can you show me the state statute that says the board does not have to amend the budget? I think your information resource may be misleading.

You stated that ECFD only needs a million bucks for trucks otherwise they would'nt need a mil levy, how much will they receive over the next ten years? My math says it's a bit more than a million.

Please do the math for me so i can understand your post, Thanks so much

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08 Oct 2013 00:22 #183 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Vote no on 4A
Go Union, I don't know the exact statute, I've asked for clarification on that and will get back to you as soon as I hear.

The projected revenue from this mill levy is just over $482,000/year. The Chief presented a rough budget for how that money would be spent each year during the Community Meeting presentation, and he stressed that this is still preliminary as he hasn't yet presented the 2013 budget to the BOD (expected at Thursdays meeting), and the price of the trucks changes the longer they wait. They plan on spending at least $233,000 of the $482,000/year on the lease purchases if I remember the presentation correctly (sorry, it's getting late and I'm operating on about 5 hours sleep over the last 2 days). I stated $1M as a rough estimate assuming they purchase at least 3 vehicles (the one the Chief has shown in his presentations is currently costing $390,000 each) to replace the 3 that are 24, 25, and 25 years old, respectively. I'm not sure how many vehicles they plan to purchase, I look forward to hearing more details on that on Thursday.

I'm going to be chaperoning my daughter's School Field Trip tomorrow so if I don't get back to you right away, that's why. Thanks for the questions, I appreciate them.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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08 Oct 2013 09:41 #184 by Grady
Replied by Grady on topic Vote no on 4A

frogger wrote: SC....these guys need some positive marketing help......Can you do that for them?

It seems she is.

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08 Oct 2013 10:47 #185 by Venturer
Replied by Venturer on topic Vote no on 4A

Science Chic wrote:
The Chief himself has been very upfront about the fact that he cannot, and would not, campaign for or against this issue - his job is to tell the facts which is what he has done at all of his presentations. The FOECF are under no such restrictions, but we believe that the facts should support themselves and this community's decision to support the fire department. It's the residents' choice as to what level of service they wish to maintain, it's just our job to inform everyone as to what levels they will have if the mill is passed vs. if it isn't.


SC Show me where in the Chamber of Commerce presentation by Chief McLaughlin, the first one I watched, where he said that he wasn't campaigning for or against this issue. He only showed what he wanted to show. He did not appear to be unbiased in his presentation. He represents the District and not the taxpayers. He is not unbiased. In fact he stinks. Some judge of character you are. And your deciding to join Friends hook, line and sinker clearly tells me what a good businesswoman you are not. Whether people tell you or not, there will be those who will not support the businesses on this website. And after reading The Ring, your participation in crap shows just what kind of businesswoman you are. Sorry SC but your positions tell me that I won't put any confidence in what you have to say. You take from the mouths of taxpayers who don't have much to begin with so that we can have fancy new trucks that we don't need. So many lies by the Friends, it is pathetic.

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08 Oct 2013 11:25 #186 by GO UNION
Replied by GO UNION on topic Vote no on 4A
SC, So watching the chief say that Soviet Russia altered the books to meet the budget is ok for ECFPD to alter them? I looked at the map and ECFPD IS STILL IN THE USA! Can the chief prove that is what Russia did? Or is he trying to cover up a lie with another? Making jokes on illegally blowing the budget says volumes on his character and the current board. That comment about an auditor making a mistake was sent out over a week ago and when the State was contacted they said NO ONE FROM ELK CREEK FIRE HAS CONTACTED THEM !

I hope the public knows that they are paying top dollar for the lawyer to help cover this up!

It's upsetting to watch the videos of the ECFPD AND ITS CHIEF lie non stop to the taxpayers

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08 Oct 2013 11:28 #187 by LadyJazzer
Replied by LadyJazzer on topic Vote no on 4A
You made up your mind 15 pages back... Why don't you stop your whining.....

I made up my mind that all I had to do was watch the usual processions of anti-tax zealots and see how many personal attacks, and excursions off into the weeds with crap like "OOoooo I KNOW who *****'s real identity is!", and associated b.s., and pick the other side and I would be safe voting FOR it.

Isn't it about time for you to go relieve yourself in someone else's bowl of oatmeal? You've already given me the BEST reasons to vote FOR it...

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08 Oct 2013 12:04 #188 by GO UNION
Replied by GO UNION on topic Vote no on 4A
I think next Pro 4a forum should be held in a pasture with piles of bull manure everywhere, not in a public school.

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08 Oct 2013 13:11 #189 by DoublePlay
Replied by DoublePlay on topic Vote no on 4A
Just be careful where you get your advice. If someone has been convicted of fraud and theft............. Well they might not deserve your trust.

Case in point: High Timber Times, Tuesday, June 14, 2011

The smell of scandal at Elk Creek

By Doug Bell

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

For years that adage has been especially true at the Elk Creek Fire District, where the names Tim Biglen and Bill Dolan have appeared far too many times alongside the words “allegation” and “improprieties.”

A recent letter by the state pension board accusing Dolan of making a fraudulent disability claim is just the latest in a long line of scandal and financial malfeasance that has plagued the department since Dolan first served as its paid chief from 1998 to 2003.

Dolan left the district in July 2003 amid an investigation of credit-card misuse and payroll irregularities. He returned in 2008 as an unpaid volunteer chief shortly after Biglen, his longtime supporter, was elected to the district board. When I questioned Biglen at the time about the wisdom of bringing back a fire chief who’d left under a cloud, his response was unequivocal: “We have no plans to ever pay Chief Dolan.”

That turned out to be true, until the board voted unanimously in May 2010 to once again put Dolan on the payroll, this time at $66,000 a year. Two new board members who were elected on reform platforms watched the vote helplessly, disenfranchised by a maneuver to wait until meeting’s end to swear them in.

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08 Oct 2013 13:22 #190 by DoublePlay
Replied by DoublePlay on topic Vote no on 4A
Former Elk Creek Fire Chief Bill Dolan
Posted: Thursday, January 5, 2012 9:53 pm

Former Elk Creek Fire Protection District Chief Bill Dolan defended himself on Jan. 5 against allegations that he fraudulently obtained disability benefits from the Fire and Police Pension Association of Colorado. Dolan's hearing had started Dec. 16. (Photo by Mike Potter/The Flume)

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