Vote no on 4A

I like facts. :graduate: Though they do tend to ruin a good argument and have the opposite intended effect.

The Backfire Effect shows why you can't use facts to win an argument
Esther Inglis-Arkell
October 14, 2013

Twister wrote: My most humble apologies for confusing you with the other person.

So you think volunteers don't cost tax payers a thing? You should probably investigate a bit further. There is a cost attached. It is certainly more economical than full time employees, but they aren't free.

You don't think they were "hired" Elk Creek uses the numbers of volunteers to qualify for FSLA leave for the paid staff, they are insured by workers compensation and the BOD and the CURRENT leadership has used the "at will" status of Colorado law to "fire" volunteers.

What is Elk Creeks annual attrition rate? If they started with 20 and graduated 16 before completing a full year, what is the attrition rate at 1 year and 2 year?

And don't get me wrong, I would rather see Volunteers there all day everyday especially if they are form OUR community. Better buy in, better knowledge of the area, better community over all. However I would still ask for fiscal responsibility when budgeting and managing this community business. It is that fiscal responsibility that I just can't find in any of the reasoning, or justifications.

When the leadership of this government based business starts threatening to shut down stations, it is the same localized version of what our national leadership is doing right now. and it all comes back to poor planning and poor fiscal management. We want our national leaders to come together and find a way to work with what they have. I want the same from these guys.

No worries, I'd be glad to be confused with Jennifer any day - she's smart, beautiful, funny, and feisty (although she runs a little more conservative than I care for, but hey, no one's perfect)!
No, they are not free - workers comp, training costs, gear, etc means that there is a financial burden for each volunteer, but not the salary cost so they are more economical, as you said. It's all spelled out in the financial reports what is budgeted for each. I have no idea about whether they qualify for FSLA (I assume you mean Fair Labor Standards Act?) or not by counting volunteers, but I'll ask. At will is nothing surprising, almost everyone is. How and why should it be different for firefighters, I'm curious? And what does it have to do with the mill levy?

The current firefighters are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong about this, but it was said at the Public Affairs Meeting when this question was asked that the attrition rate is about 2-3 ff's/year. That's why they continue to bring in new recruits to replenish those who leave for whatever reason they do. They've suspended having a recruit academy for this year, but that's obviously not permanent. Again, how does this relate to the mill levy?

Ok, so on to fiscal responsibility. I've looked over the proposed budget, both with and without the mill levy passing. If it doesn't pass, and they have to cut an additional $100K from the budget, where do you propose they do so? The budget shortfalls that this board is dealing with have been coming down the pike for a while, and it's not because of current mismanagement that they are in this bind. They already are not hiring back the training officer/fire marshall, not buying any new equipment, not outfitting any new ff's, and delaying maintenance on facilities if the mill is not passed. They have sold some vehicles and have at least a couple more to sell. What else would you propose that they cut, or how can they try to make up that money (aside from going out of district to help on other fires, a fact of which seems to irk opponents and be used against the dept, even though every time they do so it brings net profit to the dept and costs the district taxpayers nothing while they are gone - it's how they've made budget shortfalls up in previous years). If not by closing a station, or laying off the paid EMT/Paramedics and over-burdening the volunteers on long medical runs, plus sending volunteers who aren't trained on medical procedures to emergency medical situations, how do you propose they save money? Look at the proposed 2014 budget and toss some ideas out - let's figure it out!

KincaidSprings, all you have to do is quote one of my previous posts and it puts the graphic back in your post. The cost/call is on that spreadsheet already, and it shows that ECFPD is the best return on investment with the lowest cost per call. Yes, the number of smoke check calls are up and they are required to go to each and every one and investigate. So are the number of medical calls in which transport is refused after medical care is provided on site, so that they essentially offer services that are not paid for by the caller, but by the taxpayer. It still means taking a crew and a truck out, using gas, putting miles on the vehicle, and having a team gone from the station while they check it out. It doesn't mean that there isn't a need for enough personnel available when there is a real fire, or to cover the multitude of medical calls they go on each month justifying the 6 EMT/Paramedics they have on staff. Look at the Chief's Report for last month, watch the videos for his previous month's reports, and you'll see what they actually did.

It matters not at all to me who people think you are or aren't, I frankly could care less about the history of shit that has gone down at ECFPD. All that matters is the quality/content of the arguments you bring up, how this department is run now, and what this community needs going forward. So far, I've not seen a quality objection to this mill levy, the competency or integrity of this departments' leaders, or any good ideas for how to bring enough money to purchase outdated equipment and keep the department running at the same level of service that it is providing. A level of service that personally I'd like to see improved - they should have response times that are comparable to Evergreen Fire Rescue's and for that, they need more volunteers from each of the pockets of neighborhoods, more stations spread throughout the district, and more equipment to man those stations. But that's for future planning...