Vote no on 4A

Frogger why don't you stop personally attacking the firefighters that protect this community; cocky, arrogant? What's with the name calling? You don't have to agree with the mill levy but to throw out the personal attacks is completely uncalled for.

As I said before.....I am calling those I have had an interaction here or publicly exactly what I have seen some of them to be. I don't care for your put up or shut up BS. You have no clue who any of us are or what we do for our community.
As a fire fighter you should know....If you can't handle the HEAT.....you might want to get out of the kitchen sir! All fire fighters are not arrogant and cocky. (are those the names you were referring to?)
That sort of behavior has definitely been shown here by your peers. ( or do you just scroll past their posts?)

I lost all hope when the chief promoted a firefighter to an officer position after he was investigated by the Jeffco Sheriff's office for losing a loaded handgun at an elk creek funded drinking party .the employees at the bar said someone came in the next day looking for something black and shiny but would'nt say what it was. the loaded gun was found by a 911 dispatcher at the party when she stepped on it and then gave it to chief Igel who failed to follow the law by reporting it to the Sheriff office and sent an email out the next day stating anyone that lost something valuable at the party to call him.
Who wants these folks in your house in a moment of need or making decisions to protect life safety when they prove to be so irresponsible ? What does this say for the chief and the elk creek leadership? New equipment would be nice in all stations, but it's the people behind the wheel that are not trustworthy!

And they want more money! No on 4A

The posts by some here in favor of the mill levy increase turn people off because of the tone of the posts.

The posts by some here against the mill levy increase turn people off because of the tone of the posts.

IMO, if you just provide verifiable facts, and reasonable, verifiable responses, to questions, you will gain a lot more support for your opinion than you will from the other stuff.

AFAIK, Mr. Dolan is not associated with ECFD now, so no matter what he did or didn't do, it does not affect this issue.

Can we just concentrate on the facts that really matter?

What about previous people? people that already had gear and training and time. we they all welcome?

TWISTER, UMM NO. All of my friends that reported criminal behavior, fraud, sexual harassment, falsifying records or was considered a threat to the union agenda were fired and the chief sent the Sheriff's office to their homes to collect their gear after decades of service without one prior reprimand. some were state and nationally recognized emts and paramedics. the Chief fired one by email stating that having him on the department would cost chief mcglaughlin political capital! And some get accused of being a spy quite often. it's a sad place

NOT EVERY Elk CREEK FIRE FIGHTER SUPPORTS 4A !

GO UNION wrote: TWISTER, UMM NO. All of my friends that reported criminal behavior, fraud, sexual harassment, falsifying records or was considered a threat to the union agenda were fired and the chief sent the Sheriff's office to their homes to collect their gear after decades of service without one prior reprimand. some were state and nationally recognized emts and paramedics. the Chief fired one by email stating that having him on the department would cost chief mcglaughlin political capital! And some get accused of being a spy quite often. it's a sad place

NOT EVERY Elk CREEK FIRE FIGHTER SUPPORTS 4A !

How many volunteers were fired and can you break out those number as before Chief McLaughlin and those after McLaughlin became Chief.

Or were the volunteers you are speaking of all fired since Chief McLaughlin took over the department.

And could you pass my personal email address on to this firefighter that received the email from Chief McLaughlin stating that he was fired because he/she was a liability to the Chief's "political capital."

Ask your friend to forward a copy of that email to me. There may be a story in this for some of my future follow up articles on Elk Creek for The Flume.



Or please PM me (or contact me through that email) and we can talk about this.

Thank you.

Kassk20 wrote: Frogger why don't you stop personally attacking the firefighters that protect this community; cocky, arrogant? What's with the name calling? You don't have to agree with the mill levy but to throw out the personal attacks is completely uncalled for.

Twister-yes, the volunteers have the ability to cover the same calls as the paid staff, it's an issue of time. They work a full time job, raise a family/spend time with family/friends, and heaven for bid have hobbies, plus volunteer time at the fire dept to calls, trainings and meetings, where do you think the time comes from to now staff a station 24/7, quit their paid jobs? Stop seeing their kids? Stop hunting, fishing, skiing etc? You are asking a lot from people already willing to give a lot. And, no unfortunately this last year ECFD was not able to accept all the people that came out hoping to join ECFD as a volunteer because of a lack of gear. Hence, one of the reasons for the mill levy. And this year, unless it passes no one will be able to join ECFD because of the lack of gear. There are already numerous current members in outdated gear, boots with holes etc that need to be replaced, forget buying any additional sets of gear to allow anyone else the opportunity to join.

How about this for an idea Kaask. Pay people to man the station for the first shift and then have volunteers cover shifts 2 and 3 on a scheduled basis as part of their duties as a volunteer firefighter. There's what, 60 or so current volunteers? 2 per shift, 2 shifts per day, 7 days a week, comes to 28 shifts to cover. Means each volunteer would need to cover 1 shift every other week. That would save at least 3 full time positions, salary and benefits, going forward. That savings should allow for the purchase of some new bunker gear, right?

Point is that there are options other than a 50% increase to the current mill levy that is being sought, coincidentally, when the property valuations are at their lowest point and will be increasing by 10% or more a couple of years from now, meaning the revenue from property taxes will also be increasing by 10% or more a couple of years from now. Used tankers and engines instead of new ones saves tens of thousands of dollars over the course of the next two years. The district could buy tankers that are 15 years old which would allow them to be counted and be no worse off than they were 10 years ago during their last ISO rating review. If they hadn't kicked the can down the road to crisis point, they could have purchased used equipment when the now uncountable equipment reached 20 years old 5 years ago, saving not only the difference between new and used, but also the purchase price 5 years ago versus today.

What, in essence, ECFD is asking the taxpayers in the community to do is bail them out of the troubles that they created for themselves with lack of planning and forethought. They could have asked for a 1 mill levy hike, a 20% increase instead of the 50% increase being sought, to restore the lower revenue from taxes compared to 2010 and then benefitted from the additional revenue 2 years from now when the revenue increased by 10% or more that reflects the 10%+ increase in home values we've seen compared to 2 years ago.

They have, instead, opted for the shoot for the moon approach using scare tactics as a means of coercing voters to approve the higher mill levy they are currently seeking. The PPA of 5 is history regardless according to the chief. What he's hoping for is an 8A instead of a lower rating by taking the tax revenue from $980K to $1.47MM based on the current depressed values of the properties seen 2 years ago. Up the value 10% to reflect recent increases in the value of the homes and you are talking about nearly $1.6MM in a couple of years compared to the $1.16MM realized in 2010. Are you telling me it is going to take $400K more per year for 10 years to buy a couple of tankers and an engine?

jf1acai wrote: The posts by some here in favor of the mill levy increase turn people off because of the tone of the posts.

The posts by some here against the mill levy increase turn people off because of the tone of the posts.

Can we just concentrate on the facts that really matter?

You bet. And thank you for helping keep us on track.

Here is one allegation that has been asked and answered many times, but I'll try once more:

Did ECFPD overspend the 2012 appropriations by $307,938? If not, by how much?

Is it a violation of Colorado law to spend more than is appropriated?

Is knowingly or willfully spending more than is appropriated malfeasance and punishable by removal from office? See CRS 29-1-115.

The district did not overspend any appropriations. There is a difference between appropriations, which is the legal amount of money the district has available, and a budget, which is a planning document.

We spent more than our budget, but we also brought in more revenue than we had budgeted for. That unanticipated revenue was over $236,000 in revenue from our wildfire program, of which we spent approximately $132,000 on expenses. That left about $104,000 to help fill the gap from declining tax revenues and declining ambulance revenues.

From our audit, “General fund balance remained stable showing a slight decrease of $27,352”. That compared to a decrease in 2011 of $291,431. For 2013, the budget has a planned surplus of $1,790.

The audit shows a “decrease in net position” of $205,104. That reflects depreciation of capital assets of $163,141, the reduction in reserves of $33,966 and a reduction in the volunteer pension fund of $7,997.

These audits are prepared by an unbiased outside auditor. So no matter how many times those who hide behind the curtain tell you that Elk Creek is not being transparent, they are being as open and honest as possible. They really don't have any other option.

Here is another question I thought I might try and answer:

Are collections for EMT and ambulance services done by an out-of-state company?

We utilize an out of state company to process ambulance bills. They do not do collections. The decision to use a flat fee billing company is saving the taxpayers thousands of dollars each year due to a much lower cost to bill. Collections are done through a Denver firm.

PrintSmith wrote: [ If they hadn't kicked the can down the road to crisis point, they could have purchased used equipment when the now uncountable equipment reached 20 years old 5 years ago, saving not only the difference between new and used, but also the purchase price 5 years ago versus today.

Yes, I agree with you, this problem should have been dealt with 5 years ago, but it wasn't and here we are. Five years ago Chief McLaughlin was not the chief, most of our officers were not the current ones we have now, and many of the active volunteers were not a part of ECFD, including myself. So, now we are trying to deal with a problem that was not dealt with years ago. Many of the most vocal people against this mill levy were part of this dept 5 years ago and they are the ones that choose not to deal with the aging engines/tenders at that time. So, yeah it sucks that it came to this but this is the hand they left us with and we are doing our best to fix this bad situation we are now left with.