travelingirl wrote: MB calls it like he sees it...you'll need to take his terminology up with him. It's evident I agree with his premise that smart, savvy women are personally responsible. That's all. Hum.
And no one here disagreed with that......women should, and mostly do take responsibility for thier own actions, if sometimes reluctantly. But what has been asked, and asked, and never answered is if men should shoulder 50% of the responsibility for not bringing an unwanted child into this world, or if it happens, do they bear half the responsibility for that child? Where are all the smart, savvy men? or do they get a pass and can be stupid neanderthals and walk away from the not so smart woman who went and got herself pregnant and leave her with all the responsibility?
Well according to the title of the OP, many women "mostly don't" take responsbility. If more did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Of course men need to take responsiblity but many don't so it goes back again to being smart and protecting our best interests and that of any future unborn children.
daisypusher wrote: What has not been addressed is that if a woman does not want to raise the child she does not have to. By law, women are not required to be responsible.
and many men choose not to be responsible, which leaves us where? If, however, you think women who choose to end a pregnancy take it lightly, then you haven't been paying attention. It is an agonizing decision for many women, and often precipitated by the fact that they are alone, they are unable, or unwilling, to shoulder the responsibility alone. Maybe if more men stepped up to the plate when there is an unexpected pregnancy there would be fewer hard choices for women. But hey....men get to play, and women get to pay.....that seems to be the theme here tonight.
You're making me crazy Archer. A women will never have to "choose to end a pregnancy" if she chooses personal responsibilty FIRST!!!! If a women knows on Monday that she is alone, unable and unwilling to shoulder the responsiblity of an unplanned pregnancy...GUESS WHAT...she shouldn't have sex on Tuesday!!
In a perfect world, you're right....but this isn't a perfect world, and women are not always smart, and savvy......actually some smart and savvy women have indeed found themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. We understand that you and major bean have never, ever, made a mistake in your lives, but the rest of us schmucks have been known to. It seems to be a rather obvious failing of conservatives, they see the world as they want it to be and not as it is......reality may be uncomfortable, but it's real.
I think we have probably beaten this thread to death.....
daisypusher wrote: I am not referring to abortion. Women can drop the baby off within a specified period of time, not to mention adoption. Yet, it seems that some people are hell bent on having a double standard for men. Like some women are not ready to be mothers, some men may not be ready as well. Yet, instead of the understanding that we expect people to give women, these men get hatred. Gender equality seems to be lacking.
IMO in the over-all way of things I think the majority of the financial, emotional, and physical responsibility is laid at the women's feet in situations where the people are not currently together. I hope how I said that that is makes sense. Also, I think most women rise to the challenge of this. Not all though. Some men do the same thing, but they are not the majority. It's not a matter of hating men (I know I don't) it's a matter of how things are. I do agree that women need to understand the truth about having sex, getting pregnant, being married, and at any one of these points getting pregnant and not having the man there to help for whatever reason. They need to know that they might be on their own at some point and what that means to raise a child. Sometimes people get married, have kids, and then get divorced. Even when things started out on the right foot, things can go south. Some mothers might be on their own then and face challenges they never thought they would before they conceived. These are all things that people (men and women) need to think about at any time of their lives.
" I'll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure. " Mae West
archer wrote: In a perfect world, you're right....but this isn't a perfect world, and women are not always smart, and savvy......actually some smart and savvy women have indeed found themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. We understand that you and major bean have never, ever, made a mistake in your lives, but the rest of us schmucks have been known to. It seems to be a rather obvious failing of conservatives, they see the world as they want it to be and not as it is......reality may be uncomfortable, but it's real.
I think we have probably beaten this thread to death.....
One last thought...this is not a conservative vs. liberal matter.
It's a matter of being smart and a matter of the heart.
archer wrote: In a perfect world, you're right....but this isn't a perfect world, and women are not always smart, and savvy......actually some smart and savvy women have indeed found themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. We understand that you and major bean have never, ever, made a mistake in your lives, but the rest of us schmucks have been known to. It seems to be a rather obvious failing of conservatives, they see the world as they want it to be and not as it is......reality may be uncomfortable, but it's real.
I think we have probably beaten this thread to death.....
One last thought...this is not a conservative vs. liberal matter.
It's a matter of being smart and a matter of the heart.
Night. Night.
It shouldn't be perhaps. Conservatives and liberals think differently on many subjects though. Yes, it's a matter of being smart. And news flash........there are many smart men who impregnant women, and there are a lot of women who are smart and get pregnant whether they are unmarried or married at the time. Usually people who think they are smarter than most out there really aren't as smart as they think they are.
Life sometimes throws people unexpected curve balls. Sometimes we catch the ball and run with it. Sometimes we drop the ball, pick it back up, and we try our best. Nobody on this planet is the perfect person (even though some think they are) and most people try to live the best life they can.
" I'll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure. " Mae West
daisypusher wrote: I am not referring to abortion. Women can drop the baby off within a specified period of time, not to mention adoption. Yet, it seems that some people are hell bent on having a double standard for men. Like some women are not ready to be mothers, some men may not be ready as well. Yet, instead of the understanding that we expect people to give women, these men get hatred. Gender equality seems to be lacking.
IMO in the over-all way of things I think the majority of the financial, emotional, and physical responsibility is laid at the women's feet in situations where the people are not currently together. I hope how I said that that is makes sense. Also, I think most women rise to the challenge of this. Not all though. Some men do the same thing, but they are not the majority. It's not a matter of hating men (I know I don't) it's a matter of how things are. I do agree that women need to understand the truth about having sex, getting pregnant, being married, and at any one of these points getting pregnant and not having the man there to help for whatever reason. They need to know that they might be on their own at some point and what that means to raise a child. Sometimes people get married, have kids, and then get divorced. Even when things started out on the right foot, things can go south. Some mothers might be on their own then and face challenges they never thought they would before they conceived. These are all things that people (men and women) need to think about at any time of their lives.
Your response is a non sequitur. There needs to be equal rights as outlined above.
daisypusher wrote: I am not referring to abortion. Women can drop the baby off within a specified period of time, not to mention adoption. Yet, it seems that some people are hell bent on having a double standard for men. Like some women are not ready to be mothers, some men may not be ready as well. Yet, instead of the understanding that we expect people to give women, these men get hatred. Gender equality seems to be lacking.
IMO in the over-all way of things I think the majority of the financial, emotional, and physical responsibility is laid at the women's feet in situations where the people are not currently together. I hope how I said that that is makes sense. Also, I think most women rise to the challenge of this. Not all though. Some men do the same thing, but they are not the majority. It's not a matter of hating men (I know I don't) it's a matter of how things are. I do agree that women need to understand the truth about having sex, getting pregnant, being married, and at any one of these points getting pregnant and not having the man there to help for whatever reason. They need to know that they might be on their own at some point and what that means to raise a child. Sometimes people get married, have kids, and then get divorced. Even when things started out on the right foot, things can go south. Some mothers might be on their own then and face challenges they never thought they would before they conceived. These are all things that people (men and women) need to think about at any time of their lives.
Your response is a non sequitur. There needs to be equal rights as outlined above.
Maybe there needs to be, but there isn't.
" I'll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure. " Mae West
