Vote no on 4A

WindPeak\n

Which is an outright lie MG44. Trucks can be upgraded by repairing or buying parts and fire stations don't have to close. Those are scare tactics. So it doesn't have to lose its good rating. What proof do you have that trucks can't be upgraded and stations closed. Give me the facts. And thank you for the discussion.

Nope. Not a lie. Significant changes in NFPA Standards (1901, 1906, 1911, 1912, 1914 and 1915) in the past 13 years have resulted in dramatic new safety improvements in fire apparatus. The recent release of the 2003 edition of NFPA 1901 noted a new section, Annex D, referencing apparatus replacement or refurbishment. This document now outlines the basic requirements for a first-line response apparatus vs. reserve apparatus. In addition, Annex D provides guidelines on items to be refurbished and updated. Annex D establishes a new datum point for age of apparatus and updating guidelines. Should Elk Creek buy new apparatus? I don't know. I haven't Lived here long enough to investigate and I do not hold an EVT certificate. Maybe they should refurbish, but there comes a time in a piece of fire equipment's life when it outlives its usefulness and is either no longer safe or cost efficient to operate.

The department that I work for has a quint (ladder truck) that was built in 1991 by a company no longer in business. After a $250,000 refurbishment to get it "close" to NFPA standards, still has almost no safety features, compared to the newer pieces of apparatus currently available. When it breaks down (sometimes, on a regular basis), it can be out for days to weeks while our maintenance division hunts for parts, or has to manufacture them, because they are no longer made! The last time was for a fuel gauge sending unit that is no longer manufactured. We had to "make due" with a part that was "close" to the previous model. The resultant repair left the gauge in the cab inaccurate. As a result, the engineers had to figure out how many miles per gallon the rig gets until it runs out of fuel, and then calculate that into the mileage, so the quint will hopefully not run out of fuel. This is in no way a bad reflection on the mechanics of our maintenance division. They are well versed in emergency vehicle repair, but are limited in their abilities when parts are no longer manufactured for the apparatus we drive.

Every fire department has a responsibility to provide safe apparatus and equipment for its personnel to safely perform their responsibilities to their community. The apparatus should be compliant with national standards and must also adhere to state and local requirements.

Although Annex D is not mandatory, it establishes a new datum point for age of apparatus and updating guidelines. If the Department has adopted the NFPA Standards, they are bound, by law, to adhere to them.

And there you have it. Annex D is not mandatory. So let's throw it in with all your rhetoric as another scare tactic. How about some facts for today's use. Trucks can be repaired with a huge cost saving to taxpayers rather than buying new ones. We managed for decades w/o new fangled equipment. Fires were managed, lives were saved.

Engineer2207 wrote:

WindPeak wrote: Which is an outright lie MG44. Trucks can be upgraded by repairing or buying parts and fire stations don't have to close. Those are scare tactics. So it doesn't have to lose its good rating. What proof do you have that trucks can't be upgraded and stations closed. Give me the facts. And thank you for the discussion.

Nope. Not a lie. Significant changes in NFPA Standards (1901, 1906, 1911, 1912, 1914 and 1915) in the past 13 years have resulted in dramatic new safety improvements in fire apparatus. The recent release of the 2003 edition of NFPA 1901 noted a new section, Annex D, referencing apparatus replacement or refurbishment. This document now outlines the basic requirements for a first-line response apparatus vs. reserve apparatus. In addition, Annex D provides guidelines on items to be refurbished and updated. Annex D establishes a new datum point for age of apparatus and updating guidelines. Should Elk Creek buy new apparatus? I don't know. I haven't Lived here long enough to investigate and I do not hold an EVT certificate. Maybe they should refurbish, but there comes a time in a piece of fire equipment's life when it outlives its usefulness and is either no longer safe or cost efficient to operate.

The department that I work for has a quint (ladder truck) that was built in 1991 by a company no longer in business. After a $250,000 refurbishment to get it "close" to NFPA standards, still has almost no safety features, compared to the newer pieces of apparatus currently available. When it breaks down (sometimes, on a regular basis), it can be out for days to weeks while our maintenance division hunts for parts, or has to manufacture them, because they are no longer made! The last time was for a fuel gauge sending unit that is no longer manufactured. We had to "make due" with a part that was "close" to the previous model. The resultant repair left the gauge in the cab inaccurate. As a result, the engineers had to figure out how many miles per gallon the rig gets until it runs out of fuel, and then calculate that into the mileage, so the quint will hopefully not run out of fuel. This is in no way a bad reflection on the mechanics of our maintenance division. They are well versed in emergency vehicle repair, but are limited in their abilities when parts are no longer manufactured for the apparatus we drive.

Every fire department has a responsibility to provide safe apparatus and equipment for its personnel to safely perform their responsibilities to their community. The apparatus should be compliant with national standards and must also adhere to state and local requirements.

Although Annex D is not mandatory, it establishes a new datum point for age of apparatus and updating guidelines. If the Department has adopted the NFPA Standards, they are bound, by law, to adhere to them.

Wow Wind, now I know why people on this board are so vile toward you. I tried to be nice and explain it to you, because you needed facts, so I gave them to you. However, you continually decide to be hateful and ignorant. Yes, fires were handled for decades and firefighters lost their lives-either on the fire ground at that time, or years later from cancer (don't try to refute that, because you can't, plus you have already shown your ignorance with your last post)

Yes Annex D is not mandatory, but the rest of the N,F,P,A, Standards are. I was just trying to provide you with ALL of the FACTUAL information, but I see now that effort was completely lost on you. You were provided with TODAY'S FACTS- you only read what you wanted to

Try dealing with this for years. Same cycle....time and time again.

Engineer2207 ..I have decided after many replies back to WindPeak that he/she is not worth my time... We all know that with our own vehicles, there comes a time that the cost to repair them just becomes too cost prohibitive and it is time to buy something new. No vehicle that I know of can last forever, but to make their argument, they like to forget that fact.

I decided that, many replies back. I put trolls on IGNORE.

Easy for you to say when it is your own money. When it is the taxpayer's dollar parts are still available and much less expensive. You are right MG44 you aren't worth the time.

MountainGirl44 wrote: Engineer2207 ..I have decided after many replies back to WindPeak that he/she is not worth my time... We all know that with our own vehicles, there comes a time that the cost to repair them just becomes too cost prohibitive and it is time to buy something new. No vehicle that I know of can last forever, but to make their argument, they like to forget that fact.

Wow Engineer where was I hateful and ignorant?

Using scare tactics is vile.

Parts are available. Has anyone said they aren't? Doesn't it fix the trucks? How do you know that the trucks will fail? Give me the facts Engineer. Show me the stats where they have in the past.

This is just like saying that since we had a flood this year, it might flood next year and IF it does we need new trucks that will float. Big IF.

Engineer2207 wrote: Wow Wind, now I know why people on this board are so vile toward you. I tried to be nice and explain it to you, because you needed facts, so I gave them to you. However, you continually decide to be hateful and ignorant. Yes, fires were handled for decades and firefighters lost their lives-either on the fire ground at that time, or years later from cancer (don't try to refute that, because you can't, plus you have already shown your ignorance with your last post)

Yes Annex D is not mandatory, but the rest of the N,F,P,A, Standards are. I was just trying to provide you with ALL of the FACTUAL information, but I see now that effort was completely lost on you. You were provided with TODAY'S FACTS- you only read what you wanted to

Frogger, no work for you? Your business not doing to good today? Nothing better to do than harass? How about discussing the issues?

frogger wrote: Try dealing with this for years. Same cycle....time and time again.

Like I said.....same old crap....different day for years and years and years.
At least 10 now by my count.
It starts like this.
Come on to the forum with a nic.
Post around in several threads pretty friendly stuff.
Suck up to a couple of key members
Find an issue that she is interested in.
Post a couple of innocuous posts in it.
Then her position gets a little firmer on the issue.
Someone disagrees.
She begins a campaign of harassment and threats.
Makes comments about your business or non profit.
Calls people names.
Becomes more and more psychotic and angry.
(Possibly sends letters to your employer)
Threatens the very website she is posting on.
Accuses the owner and others who disagree with her of improper behavior and business practices.
Everyone figures out the cycle.
She threatens to leave.
Sends several unsavory pm's or emails to selected targets.
We all figure it out.
8 or so months later....the cycle starts all over with a new family member to blame.

Does mental illness run in the family?