Impeachment proceedings against Trump

18 Dec 2019 23:38 #851 by ScienceChic
House of Representatives Articles of Impeachment Debate: www.c-span.org/video/?467441-1/us-house-...les-impeachment&live
DECEMBER 18, 2019

The House is expected to debate two Articles of Impeachment against President Trump: abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

House Impeachment Vote: www.c-span.org/video/?467441-1/us-house-...president-trump&live

The House impeaches President Trump for abuse of power (230-197) and obstruction of Congress (229-198), with Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI) voting “present” on both articles.

My current position:
“A good magistrate will not fear [impeachments]. A bad one ought to be kept in fear of them.” -Elbridge Gerry

Today, the spirit and letter of our Constitution and our Rule of Law was upheld. It is not a day of celebration, but a day of somber duty and deep disappointment that so many of our country's leaders have eschewed their values.

I am heartened that our process to investigate and hold accountable our elected representatives remains peaceful and lawful. However, I find it shameful that the Republicans in Congress are exercising hypocrisy, deceit, and abandonment of their highest duties by voting to allow this president to continue to commit high crimes and misdemeanors, abuse of the power of his office, obstruction of justice, condoned unethical and immoral behavior, the dismantling of our institutions, and diminishment of our standing, our security, and our strength in the world for his own personal gain. They have voted to relinquish their equal and separate balance of power and instead make the Executive Branch authoritarian, a vote that should not have been partisan and which will have profound consequences for the future of governance in our nation.

[T]o preserve the republican form and principles of our Constitution and cleave to the salutary distribution of powers which that [the Constitution] has established... are the two sheet anchors of our Union. If driven from either, we shall be in danger of foundering.
~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Judge William Johnson, June 12, 1823

I fully expect that Trump will be acquitted in the Senate, as McConnell and Graham have said outright they will not be fair and impartial jurors but work directly with the defendant's counsel and to swiftly end the process. They are not on the right side of history, but until more people get fed up and start protesting, or indisputable evidence of Trump's crimes becomes public (which we now have to wait until March when the Supreme Court hears the arguments on his appeal to not have his financial and tax records released to Congress, the White House has yet to turn over any documentation regarding Ukraine aside from the summary of the transcript of the call and we are missing key participants' testimony, and we are still awaiting Assange's extradition and trial), they have no compelling reason to do what's right by the Constitution nor by their constituents.

Nobody has a more sacred obligation to obey the law than those who make the law. ~Sophocles

Adding this here because it needs to be documented in this thread. This man is unhinged and should've had the 25th Amendment brought against him long ago. This is not how the President of the United States should be behaving, especially toward the leader of the body investigating him prior to his trial in the other half of the governing body, nor is it acceptable behavior by a man who is 73 years old and been a leader in business for most of his life. This reads like an angry high school letter by someone who's been dumped.
Letter from President Donald J. Trump to the Speaker of the House of Representatives
Issued on: December 17, 2019

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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19 Dec 2019 07:24 #852 by Blazer Bob
Schrodinger's Impeachment - if they never send it to the Senate, is he really impeached?

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19 Dec 2019 08:04 #853 by ScienceChic
Yes, he simply wouldn't be acquitted or convicted.

And that is an interesting scenario. They could very well hold onto the articles of impeachment until after the Supreme Court ruling on his financials, or the election next year. Waiting for additional court cases to be decided may allow them to collect more evidence, or for more previously undisclosed evidence to be made public that is damning. Which made me wonder: what if McConnell said what he said on Hannity in order to signal the House to not send it to the Senate? He's the most savvy politician we've had in decades, as good as if not slightly better than Pelosi. Why then did he go on national TV and make such a damning statement that gives Democrats leverage to not send the Articles?

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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19 Dec 2019 15:31 #854 by Blazer Bob
Lawyers Question Whether Trump Has Been Impeached
Political Wireby Taegan Goddard

“Lawyers close to President Trump are exploring whether Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s decision to temporarily withhold articles of impeachment from the Senate could mean that the president hasn’t actually been impeached,” Bloomberg reports.

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19 Dec 2019 15:38 - 19 Dec 2019 15:38 #855 by homeagain

Blazer Bob wrote: Lawyers Question Whether Trump Has Been Impeached
Political Wireby Taegan Goddard

Lawyers close to President Trump are exploring whether Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s decision to temporarily withhold articles of impeachment from the Senate could mean that the president hasn’t actually been impeached,” Bloomberg reports.


are they CONSTITUTIONAL lawyers or just "yes" man?

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19 Dec 2019 15:46 #856 by Blazer Bob
Don't know. What I found interesting is that Taegan Goddard wrote it.

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19 Dec 2019 18:18 #857 by Rick
The best analogy the day is that Pelosi has pulled the pin of the grenade but now doesn't know what to do with it.

For a while I was thinking Amy Klobuchar wasn't quite as nutty as most of the other candidates until I heard her call this new joke a "global Watergate". LOL. whatever that means.

“We can’t afford four more years of this”

Tim Walz

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20 Dec 2019 08:27 #858 by homeagain
the collective can't be THAT confused.....if they are...we are in far worse trouble than first thought.

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20 Dec 2019 12:14 #859 by ramage
In case you missed it:
"Harvard Law School professor Noah Feldman, who testified as a Democrat witness in the House Judiciary Committee’s public hearings on impeachment, argues President Donald Trump is technically not impeached until the House submits the articles to the Senate.

In a Bloomberg News opinion-editorial published Thursday, Feldman writes the definition of impeachment, according to the framers, “assumed that impeachment was a process, not just a House vote,” and impeachment is official only when the articles are transmitted to the Senate, where lawmakers are “obliged by the Constitution to hold a trial.”

The above is from Breitbart.com, 12/19/19, but if you do not wish to accept it as a bona fide news site, please go directly to bloomberg.com:

Trump Isn’t Impeached Until the House Tells the Senate
According to the Constitution, impeachment is a process, not a vote.
By Noah Feldman
December 19, 2019, 4:35 PM EST

Priceless! What will be Pelosi's reaction?

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20 Dec 2019 19:35 #860 by Rick

ramage wrote:
Priceless! What will be Pelosi's reaction?

Good question, maybe she can get some help in that decision making from AOC since that twit seems be be leading the Dems these days.

“We can’t afford four more years of this”

Tim Walz

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