Do you Think Teachers Unions should be disbanded?

Just a thought for you archer - and friends. The governor only has say over budget items that affect the state money, not the local money. And the state troopers are subject to the legislation being offered, as is every other union member who derives some of their pay and/or benefits from the state treasury. So while you attempt to give the impression that the Wisconsin governor is targeting the unions who didn't vote for him, that is nothing short of a partisan political lie that attempts to misdirect via intentional distribution of information that is known to be factually incorrect.

Police and fire are paid with local money, not state money. The state has nothing to do with their collective bargaining agreements, unlike the state supported public schools. This is what happens when you attempt to take control away from local governments and consolidate power in the larger government entities. You progressives got the courts to transfer schools from local to state control. The unions wanted to organize the state employees and engage in collective bargaining. Now that the collective bargaining agreements, which are an inherent conflict of interest from the get go, are costing the state too much money and the state is seeking to cut its budget, the unions have a problem with how it is being done. All those wonderful state funded defined benefit pension plans and the rest of the state taxpayer funded benefits that the unions saddled state taxpayers with that are unsustainable have to be scaled back and now the state employees must kick in something to help defray the costs or 10,000 of those wonderful union employees will no longer have a job.

So tell me, union sympathizers, is it better for the brothers and sisters of the union to each kick in a little something so that 10,000 of their fellow union members can continue to have a job in these bad economic times, or is it better for the union members to remain selfish and refuse to help defray the cost of their Cadillac taxpayer funded benefits and send those 10,000 fellow union members into the 9.5% unemployment market where they can't begin to hope for anything that approaches such luxurious benefits as even the scaled back version that is currently before them? What I see is a group of people who want the wealth shared, so long as it is shared with them as the primary beneficiaries, but are unwilling to share the pain felt by the very people who are saddled with paying the tax bill from which their salaries and benefits are derived.

Collective bargaining of public employees who are unionized is an inherent conflict of interest. Those same union members wouldn't stand for the government and a private sector employer who engaged in negotiations with a similar inherent conflict of interest, but if the conflict benefits them, why by golly, let's exploit that conflict for all the individual rewards that can be reaped from it. To Hades with the general welfare of the state, we want our individual welfare payed for with taxpayer money and we won't bother to do our jobs and educate the children, or repair the roads, or track down the elected representatives who have a legal and moral obligation to convene when the legislature is in session so that the state's business can be attended to instead of fleeing the state like common criminals because elections have consequences that they are don't wish to face.

The next elections are two years away. This pending legislation can be addressed in the next election by the voters themselves if they feel the current legislature and executive have acted against their wishes. Elections have consequences. When you lose the debate in the battleground of ideas you wind up in the minority and are unable to prevent legislation from being passed with which you disagree and judges to high courts that you prefer not be there are seated with lifetime tenure. Ask me how I know. Take it up with the voters 2 years from now. If they agree with you, they will put into the legislature and the executive people whom they feel will be responsive to what they want done. Stop acting like spoiled little children that didn't get to have a candy bar at the store and do your jobs. If you are correct and the people don't like the way this governor and legislature are treating the public employees, what you lost will be returned to you two years from now. If you are wrong and the people agree with what their government did, you will not get those collective bargaining rights back and you will have to pony up a modest amount of your income to support the benefits you wish to continue to receive.

They have a right to be angry, they have a right to voice their discontent. What they don't have a right to do is interfere with the business of the state from being attended to because of their discontent. We have elections in this nation to address the problem of the government acting contrary to our wishes. To paraphrase a recent quote from a high government official, when you leave a mess for someone else to clean up, don't stand there and tell them you don't like the way they mop up the mess you made.

archer wrote: >>>>snip Arizona has had an interesting example of this conservative mentality.....on one day last week the Republican legislature voted to remove 250,000 people from the state access/medicaid rolls because they didn't have the money to cover them (about 160 million dollars saved).......a couple days later this same legislature voted to spend 507 million dollars on tax breaks to corporations. This is the same legislature that removed organ transplants from covered procedures in the state access health coverage. yep.....gotta love how the Republicans take care of the wealthy, the corporations, then stick it to the middle class and the poor. I do not know how anyone who voted these vultures into office can live with themselves. How can tax breaks for corporations be more important than peoples lives/health?

And didn't that 500 million in tax breaks just bring in a $5 Billion in new jobs and investment into Arizona?

Grady wrote:

archer wrote: >>>>snip Arizona has had an interesting example of this conservative mentality.....on one day last week the Republican legislature voted to remove 250,000 people from the state access/medicaid rolls because they didn't have the money to cover them (about 160 million dollars saved).......a couple days later this same legislature voted to spend 507 million dollars on tax breaks to corporations. This is the same legislature that removed organ transplants from covered procedures in the state access health coverage. yep.....gotta love how the Republicans take care of the wealthy, the corporations, then stick it to the middle class and the poor. I do not know how anyone who voted these vultures into office can live with themselves. How can tax breaks for corporations be more important than peoples lives/health?

And didn't that 500 million in tax breaks just bring in a $5 Billion in new jobs and investment into Arizona?

No....they haven't even gone into effect yet.

but 2 people have died already because they were denied the transplants that just a few weeks ago they would have qualified for. Is that a fair trade?

interesting that you could think that a law voted on a few days ago could have brought in $5 billion in jobs in a matter of days. No wonder conservatives have such a problem understanding the effects of their votes, they really really don't understand cause and effect in the economy.

back on topic
Elections have consequences. All the unions voices were heard during the election cycle. AMERICA VOTED FOR SPENDING CUTS EVERYWHERE. The republicans are following up with what they said during the campaigns. The democrats had their chance to state their case and LOST. The protests against Obamacare were much much bigger than this and democrats passed the bills anyways. But Unions don't care about OBAMACARE BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL EXEMPT. THEY ALREADY HAVE WAIVERS BEFORE THIS WORTHLESS BILL GOES INTO EFFECT IN 2014. If it were up to me I WOULD FIRE EVERY SINGLE TEACHER THAT CALLED IN SICK. EVERY SINGLE TEACHER. I bet you could get 50,000 teachers who don't have jobs their in one weeks time. The average american who works year-round not 9 months makes 60k. These teachers average 90k for 9 MONTHS. What a deal for them. So that is why Walker is doing this . Teachers are living fat off the taxpayer and quite frankly we are SICK OF IT. If you don't like it do what other people who don't like their jobs do.....FIND A NEW ONE!!!!

No one is saying that elections don't have consequences....and that the victors don't get to do what they want. You conveniently don't address the fact that the unions and the teachers are willing to cut salary, to pay for more of their benefits to cut costs......they are not willing to give up their collective bargaining rights......it is so blatantly obvious that this is not about how much money the state can save....the teachers have agreed to those cuts....this is about revenge....this is about punishing the teachers for not voting Republican.....if it was truly about cutting costs and dealing with all unions then the police and firefighters would not be exempt from this action.

Protesting inequality is what this nation is all about....and this is as big an example of a political party seeking revenge on one group who didn't support them while letting other groups who did support then get a pass...as I have ever seen in my lifetime. Kudos to the police and the firefighters protesting with the teachers.....they know this is wrong.

Where in the hell do you get this stuff Outdoor? The average teacher's salary for Wisconsin is $46,390. For a position that requires an advanced degree, that's peanuts. You are really a piece of crap wanting to fire all of these teachers who barely squeak by on their salaries and I'll guarantee that you could NOT find replacements.

You are right on that TM.....fire these teachers and you will definitly have a hard time finding anyone qualified who would want to work in an environment that is so hostile to the teaching profession. Once again, conservatives put their anger and rage above what is good for the community and it's children.

I think you liberals are adding more drama here than is reality. The teachers unions are a massive problem that has needed to be addressed for many years.

It's not about revenge, it's about a union who got away for years, running up the cost of education for our young'uns. Here in Jeffco - did you know that each student costs over $12,000/year for grades 1 through 12? Half of all the property taxes we pay in Jeffco goes straight to the school budget, which is $999,000,000. Yea- a billion dollars a year goes to the school district.

Many good colleges don't charge that much money. Can you see the problem here? If Wisconsin has anywhere near the same problem it MUST be addressed. Removing the collective bargain from the teachers will go a LONG way and help in many ways.

I'm glad anyway that state government is finally doing somthing about the school and teacher mess. With school budgets being the single largest budget item, it MUST be on the agenda for reform. This is not about revenge - it's about finally taking action on the biggest money sucking waste of tax payer dollars in state and local government.

I only hope this starts a trend because we desperately need this kind of action in Colorado.

why of course there is no revenge involved, the fine governor just exempted the police and firefighters from having their union gutted because.....uh because.....they wear pretty uniforms? the police are smarter and can handle a union? firefighters need a union to tell them how to fight fires?.......the governor has a policeman and/or firefighter in his family?....nope....because police and fire fighters voted for Republicans. Now that we see them out on the streets fighting for the teachers, this may have been the last election they vote for republicans. Republicans are very good at alienating people.....which is good for liberals. 2012 will be a VERY interesting election.