Do you Think Teachers Unions should be disbanded?

BearMtnHIB wrote: I think you liberals are adding more drama here than is reality. The teachers unions are a massive problem that has needed to be addressed for many years.

It's not about revenge, it's about a union who got away for years, running up the cost of education for our young'uns. Here in Jeffco - did you know that each student costs over $12,000/year for grades 1 through 12? Half of all the property taxes we pay in Jeffco goes straight to the school budget, which is $999,000,000. Yea- a billion dollars a year goes to the school district.

Many good colleges don't charge that much money. Can you see the problem here? If Wisconsin has anywhere near the same problem it MUST be addressed. Removing the collective bargain from the teachers will go a LONG way and help in many ways.

I'm glad anyway that state government is finally doing somthing about the school and teacher mess. With school budgets being the single largest budget item, it MUST be on the agenda for reform. This is not about revenge - it's about finally taking action on the biggest money sucking waste of tax payer dollars in state and local government.

I only hope this starts a trend because we desperately need this kind of action in Colorado.

The average teacher's salary in Colorado is $44,439. You really think that is what's breaking the budget? If so, then you really are a lost cause. Go to the School Board and get a copy of the budget, read it, then tell me where the problem is.

hey TM....I think we ought to put these threads in a safe archive, then 10, 20 years from now when the Republicans are moaning that the US is dead last in education in the world, when our technical and degreed jobs have all gone to other nations, when the schools are without skilled teachers because the good teachers have left for private enterprises, (they found that driving a taxi, or being a garbage man, got them more money and respect than being a teacher in this country)......then we can bring out these threads and show them just how it all started,

archer wrote:

Grady wrote:

archer wrote: >>>>snip Arizona has had an interesting example of this conservative mentality.....on one day last week the Republican legislature voted to remove 250,000 people from the state access/medicaid rolls because they didn't have the money to cover them (about 160 million dollars saved).......a couple days later this same legislature voted to spend 507 million dollars on tax breaks to corporations. This is the same legislature that removed organ transplants from covered procedures in the state access health coverage. yep.....gotta love how the Republicans take care of the wealthy, the corporations, then stick it to the middle class and the poor. I do not know how anyone who voted these vultures into office can live with themselves. How can tax breaks for corporations be more important than peoples lives/health?

And didn't that 500 million in tax breaks just bring in a $5 Billion in new jobs and investment into Arizona?

No....they haven't even gone into effect yet.

but 2 people have died already because they were denied the transplants that just a few weeks ago they would have qualified for. Is that a fair trade?

From Governor Jan Brewer's FB page

Arizona's open for business and Intel is paying attention! Just yesterday, I signed into law one of the most significant pieces of economic legislation in Arizona state history - legislation to reduce taxes and spur capital investments in Arizona. Today Intel just announced that it will invest more than $5 billion to build a new chip manufacturing facility in our state, which will create thousands of news jobs!

people die

towermonkey wrote:

BearMtnHIB wrote: I think you liberals are adding more drama here than is reality. The teachers unions are a massive problem that has needed to be addressed for many years.

It's not about revenge, it's about a union who got away for years, running up the cost of education for our young'uns. Here in Jeffco - did you know that each student costs over $12,000/year for grades 1 through 12? Half of all the property taxes we pay in Jeffco goes straight to the school budget, which is $999,000,000. Yea- a billion dollars a year goes to the school district.

Many good colleges don't charge that much money. Can you see the problem here? If Wisconsin has anywhere near the same problem it MUST be addressed. Removing the collective bargain from the teachers will go a LONG way and help in many ways.

I'm glad anyway that state government is finally doing somthing about the school and teacher mess. With school budgets being the single largest budget item, it MUST be on the agenda for reform. This is not about revenge - it's about finally taking action on the biggest money sucking waste of tax payer dollars in state and local government.

I only hope this starts a trend because we desperately need this kind of action in Colorado.

The average teacher's salary in Colorado is $44,439. You really think that is what's breaking the budget? If so, then you really are a lost cause. Go to the School Board and get a copy of the budget, read it, then tell me where the problem is.

No bad for 9 months work.

archer wrote: hey TM....I think we ought to put these threads in a safe archive, then 10, 20 years from now when the Republicans are moaning that the US is dead last in education in the world, when our technical and degreed jobs have all gone to other nations, when the schools are without skilled teachers because the good teachers have left for private enterprises, (they found that driving a taxi, or being a garbage man, got them more money and respect than being a teacher in this country)......then we can bring out these threads and show them just how it all started,

It's been proven over and over again that simply throwing money into schools does not equal better results.

Grady wrote:

archer wrote:

Grady wrote:

archer wrote: >>>>snip Arizona has had an interesting example of this conservative mentality.....on one day last week the Republican legislature voted to remove 250,000 people from the state access/medicaid rolls because they didn't have the money to cover them (about 160 million dollars saved).......a couple days later this same legislature voted to spend 507 million dollars on tax breaks to corporations. This is the same legislature that removed organ transplants from covered procedures in the state access health coverage. yep.....gotta love how the Republicans take care of the wealthy, the corporations, then stick it to the middle class and the poor. I do not know how anyone who voted these vultures into office can live with themselves. How can tax breaks for corporations be more important than peoples lives/health?

And didn't that 500 million in tax breaks just bring in a $5 Billion in new jobs and investment into Arizona?

No....they haven't even gone into effect yet.

but 2 people have died already because they were denied the transplants that just a few weeks ago they would have qualified for. Is that a fair trade?

From Governor Jan Brewer's FB page

Arizona's open for business and Intel is paying attention! Just yesterday, I signed into law one of the most significant pieces of economic legislation in Arizona state history - legislation to reduce taxes and spur capital investments in Arizona. Today Intel just announced that it will invest more than $5 billion to build a new chip manufacturing facility in our state, which will create thousands of news jobs!

people die

Even Jan Brewer knows that Intel (who has been here in the valley for decades) didn't make this decision based on the tax breaks. It's been in the works for quite some time. Funny that you were so gullible as to believe that.....no wonder these sleezy republicans get elected, there are too many voters like you who believe every lie out of their mouths.

Yeah people die, some naturally, and some at the hands of the government.

Grady wrote:

archer wrote: hey TM....I think we ought to put these threads in a safe archive, then 10, 20 years from now when the Republicans are moaning that the US is dead last in education in the world, when our technical and degreed jobs have all gone to other nations, when the schools are without skilled teachers because the good teachers have left for private enterprises, (they found that driving a taxi, or being a garbage man, got them more money and respect than being a teacher in this country)......then we can bring out these threads and show them just how it all started,

It's been proven over and over again that simply throwing money into schools does not equal better results.

I agree, and nowhere did I say throw money at the problem, I am arguing for respect for teachers.....for not punishing them because they aren't Republicans, and not punishing them for belonging to a union. If the wages, benefits are too high, then work with the teachers and their union.....don't go behind their backs and try to intimidate them into capitulation. Treat them no different than you treat other union workers.

This whole culture of blaming teachers for everything bad in our education system is going to backfire....badly.

archer wrote: hey TM....I think we ought to put these threads in a safe archive, then 10, 20 years from now when the Republicans are moaning that the US is dead last in education in the world, when our technical and degreed jobs have all gone to other nations, when the schools are without skilled teachers because the good teachers have left for private enterprises, (they found that driving a taxi, or being a garbage man, got them more money and respect than being a teacher in this country)......then we can bring out these threads and show them just how it all started,

Just so we are clear, there is nothing the union does to up the quality of teachers. The unions have opposed every pay for performance proposal, they make it hard to fire crappy teachers and promote mediocrity. Good teachers are a great asset to our country and society, and they should be greatly rewarded. Crappy teachers should find another line of work.

I dunno grady, what I am hearing here is that teachers are bad....be they good at their job or not, they need to be taken down a notch and punished for ever joining a union. I detest that kind of mentality.....and I wouldn't blame teachers across the nation if they just threw up their hands and walked. Let you all decide how you are going to educate a nation without them.

archer wrote:

Grady wrote:

archer wrote:

Grady wrote:

archer wrote: >>>>snip Arizona has had an interesting example of this conservative mentality.....on one day last week the Republican legislature voted to remove 250,000 people from the state access/medicaid rolls because they didn't have the money to cover them (about 160 million dollars saved).......a couple days later this same legislature voted to spend 507 million dollars on tax breaks to corporations. This is the same legislature that removed organ transplants from covered procedures in the state access health coverage. yep.....gotta love how the Republicans take care of the wealthy, the corporations, then stick it to the middle class and the poor. I do not know how anyone who voted these vultures into office can live with themselves. How can tax breaks for corporations be more important than peoples lives/health?

And didn't that 500 million in tax breaks just bring in a $5 Billion in new jobs and investment into Arizona?

No....they haven't even gone into effect yet.

but 2 people have died already because they were denied the transplants that just a few weeks ago they would have qualified for. Is that a fair trade?

From Governor Jan Brewer's FB page

Arizona's open for business and Intel is paying attention! Just yesterday, I signed into law one of the most significant pieces of economic legislation in Arizona state history - legislation to reduce taxes and spur capital investments in Arizona. Today Intel just announced that it will invest more than $5 billion to build a new chip manufacturing facility in our state, which will create thousands of news jobs!

people die

Even Jan Brewer knows that Intel (who has been here in the valley for decades) didn't make this decision based on the tax breaks. It's been in the works for quite some time. Funny that you were so gullible as to believe that.....no wonder these sleezy republicans get elected, there are too many voters like you who believe every lie out of their mouths.

Yeah people die, some naturally, and some at the hands of the government.

I was just quoting the governor.