Vote no on 4A

GO UNION wrote: The CUT mailer made it so easy to learn how to vote this fall. Thanks CUT and a special thanks to Mr Bartlett for all the easy to find information.

You are so right!

After reading that pile of garbage and seeing all the stupid BS on the web site, I knew if I did just the opposite of what they wanted me to: I'd be doing the right thing.

That's why I VOTED YES ON 4A!

I'm with you ZenTree! My wife and I also voted yes.

No this is the right discussion. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Lime Gulch USFS jurisdiction. And while I understand the firefighter's sleepless night, ECFD has no jurisdiction in this area except what USFS directs them to do. Had it gotten bigger it had the resources to get different Type IV, III, II and I firefighters with a huge amount more training than ECFD to deal with the situation. More people and more trucks does not give you jurisdiction in another District.

Now what is the correct discussion is that there needs to be better management of what is available, less conflict, etc. Until ECFD has rebuilt that trust they have no business to be asking for more funds. Just because there is a new boss in town does not demonstrate that ECFD will be any different that what it has been the last few years. After all they have you Michael Davis and based on your leadership skills presented here, you are still one of the problems. You are entitled to your personal opinion but when you present yourself as part of ECFD you have have the responsibility of showing some leadership ability. It is lacking. Many of the volunteers firefighters who live in ECFD and volunteer for other Districts won't come back until the mess is cleaned up. Perhaps you should work on your own skills and assess if you should even be representing ECFD before you run out asking taxpayers to pay for your, because you are a part of it and ECFD's mess.

Michael_Davis wrote: From this months Elk Creek Fire Protection Newsletter:

I’m a volunteer firefighter with the Elk Creek Fire Department. On June 19, 2013, I was called to the Lime Gulch Fire, which was only a few miles from my home.

I returned home that evening and assured my family that everything would be fine. I told them not to worry, then I spent a sleepless night, laying in my bed worrying about what the next day might bring.

I was up before dawn, getting ready to go back out on the fire. We had our pet carriers and a few boxes of our most valued possessions stacked by the door, in case we had to leave in a hurry.
I was still trying to appear confident and unafraid for the sake of my family, but as I walked through our quite home in the early morning shadows, I thought about what it would be like if every thing were to be lost this day. I was confident my family would evacuate if the fire jumped the river, but the thought of losing everything I’d accumulated in a lifetime, gave me a cold, sick feeling in my gut.
I worked the fire that day, and by the time I got home, late that night, I was truly confident the fire did not pose a threat to us.

Now I’m listening to the debate about a property tax increase for the Elk Creek Fire Protection District. If we agree to allow our taxes to be increased by a small amount, Elk Creek Fire can continue to give us all the same level of service we currently have.

It seems to me this is the wrong discussion. Instead of debating whether we’re going to pay $6 or $7 more in taxes per month so we can have the same number of firefighters, apparatus and stations, I think we should be talking about getting more protection, much more! I wish there were a fire station closer to my home. I’d like to see more fire engines and more people to man them.

I think about fires like Waldo Canyon, Black Forest and the Lower North Fork, and I know that our whole community could go up in smoke. I live in the forest, and I love it, but I understand that there are risks associated with this, and I for one would happily pay twice as much if I knew my home would be protected.

Lime Gulch Fire was not in ECFPD jurisdiction. It was in NFFD jurisdiction on USFS land.

HOWEVER, initial attack started with NFFD and USFS, and quickly involved all 285 area fire departments, as well as Jefferson County. Eventually command transitioned to a USFS Type 3 IMT, then to a Type 2 IMT as the fire grew. Reference http://www.disastersupportvolunteers.co ... p-mountain

This is an excellent example of why ALL 285 area fire departments are important for anyone who lives in the area. Wildfires do not pay any attention to department boundaries, or jurisdictional areas. Initial attack capability of every local fire department is very important for everyone in the area. The ability to quickly get resources from surrounding fire departments for initial attack is crucial in the early hours of an incident. Just because it is a USFS fire does not mean that local fire departments did not play a very significant role in protecting both lives and property.

Regarding 'cleaning up the mess' in ECFPD's department, I think they have done a good job of working on that. For how many years will they be blamed for the 'sins' of the past, over which they had no control?

It has been mentioned that maybe ECFPD will get back to previous income levels in a few years, and thus be theoretically able to maintain the level of protection they had before. Is that really all you want? Wouldn't it be better if they could improve on the protection level, to better support the expanded needs of the district, rather than just be able to hang on to what they had?

The only comment I am going to make is that when there is wildfire up here all of the fire departments in the area send people which is a good thing.

I do not have to vote on this issue but if I was in the area I would vote yes but this is just me I love the volunteers and if they have served as a volunteer for 10, 15 or 20 years they should get a pension.

It should not be as much as a fulltime 40 or more hours a week but it should be something.

Ok, now go ahead beat me up over my thoughts I am not going to fight you on it as I said I do not have to vote on this issue.

I think the way I see it is if we had a paid department (like in town) where would our taxes be?

Don't know but thought I would throw that out.

mountaindollar wrote: The only comment I am going to make is that when there is wildfire up here all of the fire departments in the area send people which is a good thing.

I do not have to vote on this issue but if I was in the area I would vote yes but this is just me I love the volunteers and if they have served as a volunteer for 10, 15 or 20 years they should get a pension.

It should not be as much as a fulltime 40 or more hours a week but it should be something.

Ok, now go ahead beat me up over my thoughts I am not going to fight you on it as I said I do not have to vote on this issue.

I think the way I see it is if we had a paid department (like in town) where would our taxes be?

Don't know but thought I would throw that out.

Totally Agree!!!!

I love it....keep talking Go Union and KincaidSprings.....people are starting to see right through all of this...are you kidding...thanking Mike Bartlett for the CUT mailer.....he has been advised by ECFPD to cease in stating the dept overspent its budget.....he was told that was an error by the accounting firm and is being corrected....he still put it in the flier....i have asked him to stop leading people to think they only need to clear brush from around their homes for lower insurance...he still put it in his flier.....if I had the ability, I would file suit against him and CUT for libel....but they know the funds aren't there and so they could write whatever they want...very sad...but I know this community and it is filled with smart, community loving people who will look at all sides and then make a decision......thank goodness....

[center:3ake44al]It seems even the little firefighters love Elk Creek Fire.

[/center:3ake44al]

WindPeak wrote: No this is the right discussion. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Lime Gulch USFS jurisdiction. And while I understand the firefighter's sleepless night, ECFD has no jurisdiction in this area except what USFS directs them to do. Had it gotten bigger it had the resources to get different Type IV, III, II and I firefighters with a huge amount more training than ECFD to deal with the situation. More people and more trucks does not give you jurisdiction in another District.

Now what is the correct discussion is that there needs to be better management of what is available, less conflict, etc. Until ECFD has rebuilt that trust they have no business to be asking for more funds. Just because there is a new boss in town does not demonstrate that ECFD will be any different that what it has been the last few years. After all they have you Michael Davis and based on your leadership skills presented here, you are still one of the problems. You are entitled to your personal opinion but when you present yourself as part of ECFD you have have the responsibility of showing some leadership ability. It is lacking. Many of the volunteers firefighters who live in ECFD and volunteer for other Districts won't come back until the mess is cleaned up. Perhaps you should work on your own skills and assess if you should even be representing ECFD before you run out asking taxpayers to pay for your, because you are a part of it and ECFD's mess.

Madam, Are you stoned or what? You should change your moniker from WindyPeak to BlowHard. This person is sharing their feelings about a scary time and you feel entitled to poop all over them. It must be tough to be as filled with hate as you are. I pity you and the rest of your Hiddie Hole Gang. Keep bashing everyone and everything. It's all you got.

Dear ZenTree, you should change your name to FullOfIt. FullOfIt how long have you lived in this district? Were you here when the ECFD was formed? That would be decades ago. We knew how to work together for the betterment of the area. Changing the Chief is purely window dressing when Rogers, Davis and others are still present creating all kinds of problems for ECFD. Nice touch Michael Davis on the pic of the new recruits who are now part of ECFD. How long do you think they will last before they get the same treatment that you and Rogers and others have given the firefighters in the past who left? How many do you think you will keep when they find better districts like Platte Canyon or Lower North Fork Fire or full time fire fighting districts like Boulder, Aurora, Northwest Metro, etc. All the window dressing in the world does not change the fact that you have not cleaned up your own mess in ECFD. Now you just ask for more money to throw at your problem.

Forest fires are always scary times. But guess what. Firefighters from different districts do respond to fires but because of their training they are limited in what they can do. No amount of firetrucks or firefighters will change the extent of what they are trained or allowed to do in a major forest fire. They are then required to ask for Type IV USFS or better and turn it over to them and they continue under the direction of the USFS. If you have lived in the community for any time at all you know that some of firefighters, not many from ECFD, because they have run off all the seasoned veterans except for the troublemakers themselves, have gained some Type IV or other experience working under the direction of USFS but are not at liberty to use any of it unless they have been trained and qualified within their own district which does not qualify any type IV's or higher. Check it. Even professional firefighters who do this for a living and volunteer for a district in their spare time like many in the InterCanyon Fire District do are not trained and qualified as type IV within their own district. So trying to plan for the 'big event' is not going to happen with more trucks and firefighters. It is a physical impossibility. That is why all the different fire departments work together and do exchanges w/o charging for their services. AND ONLY WHEN REQUESTED. They do not have any jurisdiction otherwise. Maintaining adequate fire trucks and fire fighters is the only practical way. ECFD has repeatedly wrecked its most valuable assets its good seasoned firefighters by running them off. They get a new chief and proclaim they are better. Well prove it. So far I haven't seen it. Vote NO on 4A.

ZenTree wrote:

WindPeak wrote: No this is the right discussion. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Lime Gulch USFS jurisdiction. And while I understand the firefighter's sleepless night, ECFD has no jurisdiction in this area except what USFS directs them to do. Had it gotten bigger it had the resources to get different Type IV, III, II and I firefighters with a huge amount more training than ECFD to deal with the situation. More people and more trucks does not give you jurisdiction in another District.

Now what is the correct discussion is that there needs to be better management of what is available, less conflict, etc. Until ECFD has rebuilt that trust they have no business to be asking for more funds. Just because there is a new boss in town does not demonstrate that ECFD will be any different that what it has been the last few years. After all they have you Michael Davis and based on your leadership skills presented here, you are still one of the problems. You are entitled to your personal opinion but when you present yourself as part of ECFD you have have the responsibility of showing some leadership ability. It is lacking. Many of the volunteers firefighters who live in ECFD and volunteer for other Districts won't come back until the mess is cleaned up. Perhaps you should work on your own skills and assess if you should even be representing ECFD before you run out asking taxpayers to pay for your, because you are a part of it and ECFD's mess.

Madam, Are you stoned or what? You should change your moniker from WindyPeak to BlowHard. This person is sharing their feelings about a scary time and you feel entitled to poop all over them. It must be tough to be as filled with hate as you are. I pity you and the rest of your Hiddie Hole Gang. Keep bashing everyone and everything. It's all you got.