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Impeachment proceedings against Trump

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Rick replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 01 Nov 2017 13:12 #61

Most Dem/CNN drones are probably saying "Tony who?" . I have a feeling this whole Trump collusion BS is going to backfire bigtime and expose a least a smidgen of the corruption and collusion in the Democrat ranks.

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driver8 replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 02 Nov 2017 08:05 #62

Coming from a gop/fox drone... this sounds just plain silly.

If Podesta is found to have committed a crime? Fry his ass. If hilary has been found to have committed a crime? Fry her ass... you hypocrites amaze me with what you think are 'gotcha' posts. The thing is hilary has been vetted and investigated ad nauseum for over 20 years and yet, nothing has been found. Podesta has yet to have had charges filed... but if they are I hope he is put away.

I know I IF trump and his people are found guilty of crimes against the US you guys will do nothing to condemn it and explain it away. It has been you MO for months now...

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Rick replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 02 Nov 2017 08:32 #63

driver8 wrote: Coming from a gop/fox drone... this sounds just plain silly.

If Podesta is found to have committed a crime? Fry his ass. If hilary has been found to have committed a crime? Fry her ass... you hypocrites amaze me with what you think are 'gotcha' posts. The thing is hilary has been vetted and investigated ad nauseum for over 20 years and yet, nothing has been found. Podesta has yet to have had charges filed... but if they are I hope he is put away.

I know I IF trump and his people are found guilty of crimes against the US you guys will do nothing to condemn it and explain it away. It has been you MO for months now...

You finally posted one word of truth..IF. Lets watch how the evidence plays out and see who's "if" becomes reality. CNN and most of the media has been pounding the ears of their sheeple with a whole lot of "IF" for about a year now. My guess is that IF there was really collusion between Trump and Russia, surely the evidence would have already been leaked.

Here's a question for you.... IF no collusion is found and IF Trump is not impeached because he did nothing wrong, will you admit the media and your fellow Dems wasted an incredible amount of time on ifs? Will you

I WILL CONDEMN TRUMP IF HE IS FOUND GUILTY OF COLLUSION WITH RUSSIA. Was that clear enough for you? Probably not.

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ScienceChic replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 03 Nov 2017 00:32 #64

driver8 wrote: If Podesta is found to have committed a crime? Fry his ass. If hilary has been found to have committed a crime? Fry her ass...

:yeahthat:

Rick wrote: My guess is that IF there was really collusion between Trump and Russia, surely the evidence would have already been leaked.

Two words: George Papadopoulos. Even those who've been closely following/reporting on Mueller's investigation, who supposedly have sources in the DOJ, never heard a peep about his arrest in early Oct and knew nothing of his indictment and guilty plea until it was unsealed Monday, nor did the White House remove him as if they were suspicious yet he was working as a mole for the last 3 months.

We hear what they want and when they want.

Tea Pain‏ @TeaPainUSA Nov 1
Think about this. Papadopoulos was wearin’ a wire for Mueller, now Papa is public. It means Mueller got everything he needed from him.

The Special Counsel's team is the best of the best prosecutors in the country, not rookies. They left high-paying careers to join this team and work what will be years of court cases if it plays out as predicted. Per @LouiseMensch, there are dozens of sealed indictments, with many of them mirrored at the State level as well - this has only just begun.

Rumor is that Flynn will be charged today. Former National Security Advisor - bigger fish, closer to Trump, known ties to Russia.

Meanwhile, some thoughts on Manafort (whose previous attorney must also testify, as the judge agreed to break client-attorney privilege due to the charges brought), Gates, and Papadopoulos:

Renato Mariotti‏ Verified account @renato_mariotti Oct 30 (former federal prosecutor in the Securities and Commodities Fraud Section of the US attorney's office, currently running for Illinois AG)
THREAD: What high level conclusions can we take away from today’s charges by Mueller?
11:48 AM - 30 Oct 2017

https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/925056839296970752
1/ My initial thoughts on the Manafort and Gates indictment were in this thread:
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/924991226008489984
THREAD: My very preliminary / initial thoughts on the indictment of Paul Manafort and Richard Gates.
2/ What I’m struck by is the breadth of charges brought against Manafort and Gates at this very early stage. I expected only narrow charges. Manafort and Gates Indictment
3/ Mueller *did* bring those narrow charges in the indictment and they will be very hard to defend against.
4/ Either you made a disclosure or you didn’t. Either you had a foreign bank account or you didn’t. Prosecutors love charges like that.
5/ But there was also a broad conspiracy charge which will allow Mueller to get a wide array of evidence before the jury.
6/ The most powerful evidence to the jury could be the wealth and lavish spending outlined in the indictment.
7/ Federal prosecutors usually get a conviction and I doubt Mueller brought these charges if he didn’t have the goods to prove them.
8/ Given that Manafort and Gates are looking at years in prison, if they don’t expect to get pardoned, they should consider cooperating.
9/ As for Papadopoulos, I explained my early thoughts here:
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/925011265751220225
THREAD: What does news that George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI mean? (Hint: He's flipping.)
10/ Papadopoulos is cooperating with Mueller, and the charging document has a lot of explosive details about contacts with Russia. Papadopoulos Indictment
11/ Trump’s team should assume that everything that Papadopoulos knows is now known by Mueller’s team.
12/ Today’s indictment does *not* mean that Manafort and Gates won’t be charged with other crimes.
13/ Mueller can add charges down the line by “superseding” with another indictment. He can charge other people too.
14/ This is not the end of his investigation. And everyone speaking to him should view Papadopoulos as a cautionary tale.
15/ I’ve told you for months that talking to the FBI/Mueller is serious business with huge pitfalls.
16/ Many of you asked me about destroying evidence. Well, check this out:
17/ That didn’t work out well for Papadopoulos. If the FBI finds out about your efforts to obstruct, you’re in trouble. As he was. /end


We need to stop putting politics above Truth and Justice. Anyone who's committed wrong-doings needs to be charged, tried, and convicted if guilty. Else, the Constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on, and this country is finished.


The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh

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Rick replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 03 Nov 2017 07:31 #65

Sorry SC, an unpaid volunteer really doesn't make this what you think it does and will certainly not bring down the president... keep dreaming.

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ScienceChic replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 03 Nov 2017 09:43 #66

Rick, have you seen the pictures of Papadopoulos with the Greek president? He's not a lowly, insignificant staff person. He's also not the whole story. We haven't even seen the alleged indictments against Flynn, Flynn Jr, Don Jr, Kushner, Sessions, Pence, Tillerson, Page, et al yet.

Read through those indictments, look at the charges, and think about what they mean in the bigger picture. There's no media bias or second-hand information there - that's straight up what those people have been charged with, including conspiring against the United States of America. Men who worked for President Trump while he was president. Thinking that he had no clue about this or wasn't involved in some way is the height of naivete - look at the timelines of when he started talking about Hillary's emails vs when Trump Jr met with the Russian lawyer, look at the press release that DT personally helped write for Jr after he stupidly admitted to that meeting. He didn't divest his businesses creating huge conflicts of interest, his children have been involved in this and his businesses with him, and on top of all that, he's a proven liar who'd been accused of horrible acts throughout many years. He lacks ethics, morality, and integrity and isn't worthy of respect or your support.

Ask yourself how a man who runs casinos can't seem to make money on them, and why only one bank in the world (none in the U.S.) will lend him money?

https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/925904932171124736
Renato Mariotti ‏Verified account @renato_mariotti
THREAD: Is the President of the United States under investigation?
6:41 PM - 1 Nov 2017
1/ Today in the @nytimes Trump told @maggieNYT that "I'm not under investigation, as you know." Link: www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/t...ia-charges.html?_r=0
2/ When we commonly talk about someone being "under investigation," we mean that they're a "subject" of the investigation.
3/ A "subject" of the investigation is someone whose conduct is within the scope of the grand jury's investigation.
4/ So as long as Donald Trump's conduct is within the scope of what Mueller is looking at, he is under investigation.
5/ Based on everything we know publicly, there can be no serious question that Mueller is investigating Trump's firing of Comey.
6/ One obvious clue that Mueller is looking at the firing of Comey are the document requests that Mueller made to the White House.
7/ Here is one of the threads I wrote about them at the time they were revealed:
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/910583276963844096
THREAD: What do the details of Mueller's document requests to the White House tell us about what Mueller is investigating?
8/ For instance, Mueller wanted documents relating to Trump's meeting with the Russian Ambassador the day after he fired Comey:

9/ Mueller also wanted documents about Trump's firing of Flynn:

10/ He also wanted documents about the statement allegedly dictated by Trump about the Trump Tower meeting:

11/ Mueller requested these documents because he's looking at Trump's conduct. Trump's lawyers are responding to those requests.
12/ In case there's any doubt Trump's lawyers know Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction, read this thread:
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/903344401824579586
THREAD: What do the legal arguments made by Trump's lawyers mean for Mueller's obstruction investigation?
https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/903343240556011523
13/ In that thread, I discuss a @WSJ article that reports Trump's lawyers are presented legal arguments to Mueller about obstruction.
14/ Lawyers don't make arguments to prosecutors about things that they're *not* investigating. They know Mueller is looking at obstruction.
15/ So Trump's team knows he's under investigation. Reporters should not accept at face value his assertion that he's not. /end

Counterchekist‏ @counterchekist 37 minutes ago
How many indictments do you think exist against #TeamTreason from all venues? 10? 20? 40?

... The figure is actually higher than that. :-)


The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh
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Rick replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 03 Nov 2017 19:23 #67

Sorry SC, I love ya but sometimes I just want to hear what's on your mind, or a snippet with your take on it, and not have to read an entire article... no offence, just not much time and extremely lazy ;:biggrin:

Sorry, but if you really do think this is anywhere close to what the Dems have been proclaiming about Trumps "collusion", I really think you're just wishful thinking. Nothing they find will take Trump out, not with Russian collusion anyway, I have no doubt he could trip up and get impeached for some real offense.

BTW, what do you think about Hillary's collusion allegations? I have a thread about it :B)

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Blazer Bob replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 03 Nov 2017 19:32 #68

If you paste tweets you do not have an argument, just a POV.

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ScienceChic replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 06 Nov 2017 12:54 #69

Gents, you know I'm not into soundbites. :biggrin: With me, you get the supporting info, be it articles or Tweet threads (and that's why they were posted after the paragraph of my thoughts). We've been talking for years here on why/how the main stream media sucks, and citizen journalism is the new wave of finding the truth - that's why I'm posting the Tweet threads (more on that topic another time).

On to the latest: Michael Flynn. This hit the MSM yesterday:
Mueller Has Enough Evidence to Bring Charges in Flynn Investigation
by Julia Ainsley, Carol E. Lee and Ken Dilanian, NBC News
Nov 5, 2017 8:41pm

WASHINGTON — Federal investigators have gathered enough evidence to bring charges in their investigation of President Donald Trump's former national security adviser and his son as part of the probe into Russia's intervention in the 2016 election, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation.

Michael T. Flynn, who was fired after just 24 days on the job, was one of the first Trump associates to come under scrutiny in the federal probe now led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller into possible collusion between Moscow and the Trump campaign.

Flynn's son, Michael G. Flynn, who worked closely with his father, accompanied him during the campaign and briefly worked on the presidential transition, could be indicted separately or at the same time as his father, according to three sources familiar with the investigation.

If the senior Flynn is charged, he would be the first current or former Trump administration official formally accused of criminal wrongdoing by the Mueller team. Flynn was fired in February following public revelations that he had lied to Vice President Pence about his dealings with the Russian ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak.

Now, the people who've been reporting on this for the past several months who are not part of main stream media have been saying that Flynn has already been indicted (see also older stories linked within) and tried to do a plea bargain to protect his son. If all that comes to pass, I want you to remember three things:
1.) they [the citizen journalists] have been right in their allegations and are credible sources,
2.) they beat the mainstream media on all of this by months, and
3.) the Trump administration knew about Flynn, ( Why the White House Dreads a Flynn Indictment ) and their attempts to minimize damage by saying that it's only campaign officials who've been charged so far and this doesn't involve Trump means that they are flat out lying to the American People and you need to start wondering what else they are lying about.
https://twitter.com/20committee/status/927549721488568320
John Schindler‏ Verified account @20committee

Since Big News in #KremlinGate is looming, it's time for a brief tweetstorm on what's really going on behind scenes with Team Mueller. /1
7:54 AM - 6 Nov 2017

If you're surprised that #MoscowMisha is cooked, you've not been paying attention. Sr & Jr are both going down on a bunch of charges. /2

Flynn, like Manafort, desperately wanted a deal from Mueller, but they had 0 to offer that DoJ didn't already have. So, they're screwed. /3

The Team Mueller + FBI/IC joint investigation here is truly massive; a CI inquiry this expansive hasn't been seen in DC since VENONA. /4

Together, they're investigating HUNDREDS of targets for poss ties to Russian spies & mobsters. Public will be shocked when it comes out. /5

These CI targets include WH officials; Trump associates, friends & family; journalists and lobbyists; even bloggers. It's a wide net. /6

It will take years for this CI inquiry to be concluded -- VENONA ran from 1943 to 1980, folks -- but the answers will stun the public. /7

Anticipate a bunch of indictments in the next year or 2, perhaps many more in the long run; it depends how indictments rounds 1-5 go. /8

The Russian conspiracy in DC took years to metastasize, it will take years to unravel it all. Marathon not sprint, as I say. Patience. /End

observer.com/author/john-r-schindler/

At least nine people in Trump’s orbit had contact with Russians during campaign and transition
By Rosalind S. Helderman, Tom Hamburger and Carol D. Leonnig, Washington Post
November 5 at 10:50 PM

Rick, you said in the other thread that you started about Hillary and the DNC, "I understand your hatred from Trump... most of which seems to stem from his poor use of the English language." and I wanted to reply here to keep that thread more clean (e.g. on topic regarding Hillary and the DNC). No, I do not hate Trump for his poor command of the English language. I wouldn't even classify my emotions toward him as hatred, more fear and dismay at the damage he is causing us around the world in loss of respect and leadership, coupled with appalling disgust at the lows we as a country have sunk to that we would elect a man (though I would also state the caveat that he may not have been actually been elected by us, if investigations bear fruit that the election was tampered with) who is a confirmed adulterer and liar, who bullies people, has been involved in so many lawsuits it's mind-boggling, and also allegedly sexually assaulted multiple women. His narcissistic tendencies means he puts himself ahead of the country and her People, his refusal to release his tax returns and divest himself of his business interests created conflicts of interest and lack of transparency (also seen by the WH no longer publishing visitor logs), his calls to trample the 1st Amendment rights of our citizens and to investigate and lock up his former opponent are horrific statements at best, the hallmarks of fascism and dictatorship at worst. No, I do not hate him for his English, I despise the harm he has done to the country I love. Trump is but the key that opened the lock of a huge box of foulness that has invaded our society and that's the bigger picture that I'm concerned with; he's but one tiny piece whose behaviors are so blatantly abhorrent that it finally jolted people out of their apathy toward a government that has been unhealthy for quite some time now.

I am, however, thrilled at the activism that has ensued, encouraged at the critical eye that has been trained at our election processes and on our social media marketing empires for their lack of oversight and regulation, comforted that our system of checks and balances is [somewhat] working, and hopeful that the light shed on the corruption at our highest levels of government (by both parties) means something will be done about it. I don't want another Clinton/Bush/Bernie/recycled election, I want fresh, intelligent, bold leadership that embraces knowledge and bipartisanship, compromise and mutual respect for the differences in the strengths and weaknesses we all bring to the table. I want us looking forward and proactively approaching the problems we have so our kids have a chance at a better future.

And world peace would be pretty damn cool too, but I won't go that far off the deep end of idealism. :P


The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh
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Rick replied the topic: Impeachment proceedings against Trump 07 Nov 2017 11:14 #70

ScienceChic wrote: Gents, you know I'm not into soundbites. :biggrin: With me, you get the supporting info, be it articles or Tweet threads (and that's why they were posted after the paragraph of my thoughts). We've been talking for years here on why/how the main stream media sucks, and citizen journalism is the new wave of finding the truth - that's why I'm posting the Tweet threads (more on that topic another time).

On to the latest: Michael Flynn. This hit the MSM yesterday:
Mueller Has Enough Evidence to Bring Charges in Flynn Investigation
by Julia Ainsley, Carol E. Lee and Ken Dilanian, NBC News
Nov 5, 2017 8:41pm

WASHINGTON — Federal investigators have gathered enough evidence to bring charges in their investigation of President Donald Trump's former national security adviser and his son as part of the probe into Russia's intervention in the 2016 election, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation.

Michael T. Flynn, who was fired after just 24 days on the job, was one of the first Trump associates to come under scrutiny in the federal probe now led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller into possible collusion between Moscow and the Trump campaign.

Flynn's son, Michael G. Flynn, who worked closely with his father, accompanied him during the campaign and briefly worked on the presidential transition, could be indicted separately or at the same time as his father, according to three sources familiar with the investigation.

If the senior Flynn is charged, he would be the first current or former Trump administration official formally accused of criminal wrongdoing by the Mueller team. Flynn was fired in February following public revelations that he had lied to Vice President Pence about his dealings with the Russian ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak.

Now, the people who've been reporting on this for the past several months who are not part of main stream media have been saying that Flynn has already been indicted (see also older stories linked within) and tried to do a plea bargain to protect his son. If all that comes to pass, I want you to remember three things:
1.) they [the citizen journalists] have been right in their allegations and are credible sources,
2.) they beat the mainstream media on all of this by months, and
3.) the Trump administration knew about Flynn, ( Why the White House Dreads a Flynn Indictment ) and their attempts to minimize damage by saying that it's only campaign officials who've been charged so far and this doesn't involve Trump means that they are flat out lying to the American People and you need to start wondering what else they are lying about.
https://twitter.com/20committee/status/927549721488568320
John Schindler‏ Verified account @20committee

Since Big News in #KremlinGate is looming, it's time for a brief tweetstorm on what's really going on behind scenes with Team Mueller. /1
7:54 AM - 6 Nov 2017

If you're surprised that #MoscowMisha is cooked, you've not been paying attention. Sr & Jr are both going down on a bunch of charges. /2

Flynn, like Manafort, desperately wanted a deal from Mueller, but they had 0 to offer that DoJ didn't already have. So, they're screwed. /3

The Team Mueller + FBI/IC joint investigation here is truly massive; a CI inquiry this expansive hasn't been seen in DC since VENONA. /4

Together, they're investigating HUNDREDS of targets for poss ties to Russian spies & mobsters. Public will be shocked when it comes out. /5

These CI targets include WH officials; Trump associates, friends & family; journalists and lobbyists; even bloggers. It's a wide net. /6

It will take years for this CI inquiry to be concluded -- VENONA ran from 1943 to 1980, folks -- but the answers will stun the public. /7

Anticipate a bunch of indictments in the next year or 2, perhaps many more in the long run; it depends how indictments rounds 1-5 go. /8

The Russian conspiracy in DC took years to metastasize, it will take years to unravel it all. Marathon not sprint, as I say. Patience. /End

observer.com/author/john-r-schindler/

At least nine people in Trump’s orbit had contact with Russians during campaign and transition
By Rosalind S. Helderman, Tom Hamburger and Carol D. Leonnig, Washington Post
November 5 at 10:50 PM

Rick, you said in the other thread that you started about Hillary and the DNC, "I understand your hatred from Trump... most of which seems to stem from his poor use of the English language." and I wanted to reply here to keep that thread more clean (e.g. on topic regarding Hillary and the DNC). No, I do not hate Trump for his poor command of the English language. I wouldn't even classify my emotions toward him as hatred, more fear and dismay at the damage he is causing us around the world in loss of respect and leadership, coupled with appalling disgust at the lows we as a country have sunk to that we would elect a man (though I would also state the caveat that he may not have been actually been elected by us, if investigations bear fruit that the election was tampered with) who is a confirmed adulterer and liar, who bullies people, has been involved in so many lawsuits it's mind-boggling, and also allegedly sexually assaulted multiple women. His narcissistic tendencies means he puts himself ahead of the country and her People, his refusal to release his tax returns and divest himself of his business interests created conflicts of interest and lack of transparency (also seen by the WH no longer publishing visitor logs), his calls to trample the 1st Amendment rights of our citizens and to investigate and lock up his former opponent are horrific statements at best, the hallmarks of fascism and dictatorship at worst. No, I do not hate him for his English, I despise the harm he has done to the country I love. Trump is but the key that opened the lock of a huge box of foulness that has invaded our society and that's the bigger picture that I'm concerned with; he's but one tiny piece whose behaviors are so blatantly abhorrent that it finally jolted people out of their apathy toward a government that has been unhealthy for quite some time now.

I am, however, thrilled at the activism that has ensued, encouraged at the critical eye that has been trained at our election processes and on our social media marketing empires for their lack of oversight and regulation, comforted that our system of checks and balances is [somewhat] working, and hopeful that the light shed on the corruption at our highest levels of government (by both parties) means something will be done about it. I don't want another Clinton/Bush/Bernie/recycled election, I want fresh, intelligent, bold leadership that embraces knowledge and bipartisanship, compromise and mutual respect for the differences in the strengths and weaknesses we all bring to the table. I want us looking forward and proactively approaching the problems we have so our kids have a chance at a better future.

And world peace would be pretty damn cool too, but I won't go that far off the deep end of idealism. :P

Yeah, I get where you're coming from and probably shouldn't have limited it to his words that drive lefties nuts (they drive me nuts too but for different reasons). He's a bully, a bigmouth, a braggart... he's not exactly what I'd call "presidential". But for me the alternative was a continuation of a progressive ideology that I see as destructive to our economy and for the strength of this union. That's something you and I will never agree on, but at least we agree that the two party system has to be "shock and awed" (I think we agree on that) so that we can get people elected who haven't been planting roots in congress for decades and getting rich off of government "service".

Here's a personal analogy for you... in 2010 I was diagnosed with two different cancers, one stage 3 that went to stage 4 and one that was stage 2. Everybody around me including myself thought my days were numbered. I thought cancer was the worst thing that could ever happen to me... I thought it was my death sentence. The reality is, cancer actually changed my life for the better because I did survive. I was in a business rut because I took on way too much, the economy was in the shitter, and I just wasn't happy.

Two full years of being bombarded with chemo and radiation destroyed my optimist for any kind of prosperous and healthy future. Yet here I am, happier than I've been since I started my business in 1996. 7 years of recovering and rebuilding my confidence to the point where I've now started a better business where I'm working half as much and making more money. So, looks like one of the worst things to happen to me ended up being a major blessing. I know you don't think Trump is going to be a "good cancer", but if the end result is that the establishment gets busted up and cleansed of the old dinosaurs on both sides, I don't think you could argue that to be a bad thing. Electing Hillary would have ensured our enslavement to these inept MFrs for a long long time unless another outsider was to be elected, which is not likely.

We'll all survive this and regardless what the media tells you, this kind of change may be just what this country needed (or we'll suffer a horrible death and I'll have to eat my words in shame:) )

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